Selected Signals / conditional locking
Moderator: RedFred
Selected Signals / conditional locking
G'day everyone,
I would like to see the ability to have a single lever work two (or more) signals, dependant upon the setting of points (we called it 'signal selection' here in W. A.).
This practice was fairly common here in Western Australia, particularly where signalling at stations was changed (or the complexity of it was increased) due to the provision of additional train movements and the resulting resignalling.
I've been working on building an Sn3.5 Scale model layout of the WAGR Claremont station for some months now, and have started designing and setting out the layout for it in the SigScribe4 software. I am exploring this as an option to 'work' the station layout properly rather than the usual assemblage of non-railway devices used by most modellers. The original (prototype) track layout is worked by a 45 lever frame.
I have quickly found that lever 2, which has two functions on the prototype, i.e. it worked:
Signal 2a - onto Platform 4 when points 17 were normal; OR
Signal 2b - onto Platform 5 when points 17 were reversed),
cannot seem to be done in SigScribe4 (or have I missed something)?
Not that this matters, but the signals themselves were completely different as well:
Signal 2a was a Home signal, whilst
Signal 2b was a horizontally rotating McKenzie & Holland Shunt signal beneath Signal 2a on the same 'doll'.
From what I've read in the SigScribe4 Tutorial, I would presently need to use a separate lever for each signal.
There are five other instances were 'selected' signals are used in the prototype. In some of these cases, the signals worked by the same lever are on different signal posts entirely. I gather that would (presently) require a lot more MODRATEC levers?
Am I correct in assuming that trying to build a representation of this prototype lever frame would not be possible with only 45 levers, given these constraints?
Cheers and "Line Clear" for now,
ChrisF.
I would like to see the ability to have a single lever work two (or more) signals, dependant upon the setting of points (we called it 'signal selection' here in W. A.).
This practice was fairly common here in Western Australia, particularly where signalling at stations was changed (or the complexity of it was increased) due to the provision of additional train movements and the resulting resignalling.
I've been working on building an Sn3.5 Scale model layout of the WAGR Claremont station for some months now, and have started designing and setting out the layout for it in the SigScribe4 software. I am exploring this as an option to 'work' the station layout properly rather than the usual assemblage of non-railway devices used by most modellers. The original (prototype) track layout is worked by a 45 lever frame.
I have quickly found that lever 2, which has two functions on the prototype, i.e. it worked:
Signal 2a - onto Platform 4 when points 17 were normal; OR
Signal 2b - onto Platform 5 when points 17 were reversed),
cannot seem to be done in SigScribe4 (or have I missed something)?
Not that this matters, but the signals themselves were completely different as well:
Signal 2a was a Home signal, whilst
Signal 2b was a horizontally rotating McKenzie & Holland Shunt signal beneath Signal 2a on the same 'doll'.
From what I've read in the SigScribe4 Tutorial, I would presently need to use a separate lever for each signal.
There are five other instances were 'selected' signals are used in the prototype. In some of these cases, the signals worked by the same lever are on different signal posts entirely. I gather that would (presently) require a lot more MODRATEC levers?
Am I correct in assuming that trying to build a representation of this prototype lever frame would not be possible with only 45 levers, given these constraints?
Cheers and "Line Clear" for now,
ChrisF.
Hello ChrisF. Welcome aboard.
You are correct in what you say. At this stage, neither our Frames nor our software can offer conditional locking. However, the next generation of SigScribe4 (probably SigScribe5) is under development and expected to be released around the middle of 2007. It will handle conditional locking, and so will our Frames.
The selected signal matter may be able to be handled, provided that the layout is simple (sounds unlikely in your case). If you are able to define a single signal to cover both routes required, while still maintaining safe interlocking, then you could use one of our Slot-wit gates to select the signal to be cleared based on the state of the points in question.
You are correct in what you say. At this stage, neither our Frames nor our software can offer conditional locking. However, the next generation of SigScribe4 (probably SigScribe5) is under development and expected to be released around the middle of 2007. It will handle conditional locking, and so will our Frames.
The selected signal matter may be able to be handled, provided that the layout is simple (sounds unlikely in your case). If you are able to define a single signal to cover both routes required, while still maintaining safe interlocking, then you could use one of our Slot-wit gates to select the signal to be cleared based on the state of the points in question.
All the best
Harold
MODRATEC Help
Harold
MODRATEC Help
[quote="Harold"]Hello ChrisF. Welcome aboard.
You are correct in what you say. At this stage, neither our Frames nor our software can offer conditional locking. However, the next generation of SigScribe4 (probably SigScribe5) is under development and expected to be released around the middle of 2007. It will handle conditional locking, and so will our Frames.
The selected signal matter may be able to be handled, provided that the layout is simple (sounds unlikely in your case). If you are able to define a single signal to cover both routes required, while still maintaining safe interlocking, then you could use one of our Slot-wit gates to select the signal to be cleared based on the state of the points in question.[/quote]
G'day Harold,
Thanks for the reply. I thought that was the case, so I'll wait for the new version later in the year.
As a matter of interest, our WAGR practice was to have mechanical signal selectors, attached to the points by point rodding. This moves the position of a slide within the selector box. There are three wires connected to this selector box, one from the (single) signal lever, and two signal wires - one to each of the two signals in whatever part of the yard they were located.
I realise that this indicates that this is not a 'leverframe' interlocking problem, but the provision of the concept would be good to have in SigScribe4.
On another note, I completed a layout in SigScribe4 last night of the WAGR's East Fremantle Station as it was in 1903. This station has not existed since 1905, so it was interesting to 'work' the interlocked box once more.
Cheers and "Line Clear",
ChrisF.
You are correct in what you say. At this stage, neither our Frames nor our software can offer conditional locking. However, the next generation of SigScribe4 (probably SigScribe5) is under development and expected to be released around the middle of 2007. It will handle conditional locking, and so will our Frames.
The selected signal matter may be able to be handled, provided that the layout is simple (sounds unlikely in your case). If you are able to define a single signal to cover both routes required, while still maintaining safe interlocking, then you could use one of our Slot-wit gates to select the signal to be cleared based on the state of the points in question.[/quote]
G'day Harold,
Thanks for the reply. I thought that was the case, so I'll wait for the new version later in the year.
As a matter of interest, our WAGR practice was to have mechanical signal selectors, attached to the points by point rodding. This moves the position of a slide within the selector box. There are three wires connected to this selector box, one from the (single) signal lever, and two signal wires - one to each of the two signals in whatever part of the yard they were located.
I realise that this indicates that this is not a 'leverframe' interlocking problem, but the provision of the concept would be good to have in SigScribe4.
On another note, I completed a layout in SigScribe4 last night of the WAGR's East Fremantle Station as it was in 1903. This station has not existed since 1905, so it was interesting to 'work' the interlocked box once more.
Cheers and "Line Clear",
ChrisF.
ChrisF,
Perhaps you would like to submit your East Fremantle design to be added to our examples list http://MODRATEC.com/ss4examples.php . Just attach it to an email together with a brief description of the layout.
Perhaps you would like to submit your East Fremantle design to be added to our examples list http://MODRATEC.com/ss4examples.php . Just attach it to an email together with a brief description of the layout.
All the best from "modadmin"
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MODRATEC
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ChrisF's SigScribe4 file for East Fremantle is now available on the examples web page
http://MODRATEC.com/ss4examples.php
Thanks ChrisF
http://MODRATEC.com/ss4examples.php
Thanks ChrisF
All the best from "modadmin"
Forum Administration
MODRATEC
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MODRATEC
Selected Signals.
I too have a need for this option but in addition on the diagram (Old Hill Jcn)
I am working on there is also a FOULING RAIL which is operated in conjunction with a Starter Signal.
It's purpose is to prevent the signal being cleared if any wheel is in the flangway close to and thereby obstructing the crossing move that this signal would allow, rather like a mechanical track curcuit.
Dave M.
I am working on there is also a FOULING RAIL which is operated in conjunction with a Starter Signal.
It's purpose is to prevent the signal being cleared if any wheel is in the flangway close to and thereby obstructing the crossing move that this signal would allow, rather like a mechanical track curcuit.
Dave M.
Caedave,
A fouling bar can easily be accommodated using SigScribe4. You simply provide a blue lever in the frame - it doesn't need to be connected to anything - then, when defining the route for the affected signal, reverse the blue lever so that it is included in the definition.
A fouling bar can easily be accommodated using SigScribe4. You simply provide a blue lever in the frame - it doesn't need to be connected to anything - then, when defining the route for the affected signal, reverse the blue lever so that it is included in the definition.
All the best
Harold
MODRATEC Help
Harold
MODRATEC Help
Yes, but that would invalidate the lever layout as the fouling bar was operated directly by the associated signal lever, and was not therefore within the box interlocking, but locked the signal lever by external mechanical means, in this case the weight of a wheel preventing the bar from raising.
So therefore, what I am looking for is a symbol (like the Det placer) that can be placed within the diagram, but, remote from the associated Signal/Point and then Connected to the Signal/Point lever as required. It would then be operate in the same way as a combined FPL/Point lever.
Dave M
So therefore, what I am looking for is a symbol (like the Det placer) that can be placed within the diagram, but, remote from the associated Signal/Point and then Connected to the Signal/Point lever as required. It would then be operate in the same way as a combined FPL/Point lever.
Dave M