MODRATEC Logo
Click our Logo to enter the MODRATEC Web Site.

MODRATEC Guest Lounge
Model Railway Technology Discussions
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Selected Signals / conditional locking

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    MODRATEC Guest Lounge Forum Index -> SigScribe4 version 2 wish list
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ChrisF



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Selected Signals / conditional locking Reply with quote

G'day everyone,

I would like to see the ability to have a single lever work two (or more) signals, dependant upon the setting of points (we called it 'signal selection' here in W. A.).

This practice was fairly common here in Western Australia, particularly where signalling at stations was changed (or the complexity of it was increased) due to the provision of additional train movements and the resulting resignalling.

I've been working on building an Sn3.5 Scale model layout of the WAGR Claremont station for some months now, and have started designing and setting out the layout for it in the SigScribe4 software. I am exploring this as an option to 'work' the station layout properly rather than the usual assemblage of non-railway devices used by most modellers. The original (prototype) track layout is worked by a 45 lever frame.

I have quickly found that lever 2, which has two functions on the prototype, i.e. it worked:
Signal 2a - onto Platform 4 when points 17 were normal; OR
Signal 2b - onto Platform 5 when points 17 were reversed),
cannot seem to be done in SigScribe4 (or have I missed something)?

Not that this matters, but the signals themselves were completely different as well:
Signal 2a was a Home signal, whilst
Signal 2b was a horizontally rotating McKenzie & Holland Shunt signal beneath Signal 2a on the same 'doll'.

From what I've read in the SigScribe4 Tutorial, I would presently need to use a separate lever for each signal.

There are five other instances were 'selected' signals are used in the prototype. In some of these cases, the signals worked by the same lever are on different signal posts entirely. I gather that would (presently) require a lot more MODRATEC levers?

Am I correct in assuming that trying to build a representation of this prototype lever frame would not be possible with only 45 levers, given these constraints?

Cheers and "Line Clear" for now,
ChrisF.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Harold
Top Link
Top Link


Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 16
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello ChrisF. Welcome aboard.

You are correct in what you say. At this stage, neither our Frames nor our software can offer conditional locking. However, the next generation of SigScribe4 (probably SigScribe5) is under development and expected to be released around the middle of 2007. It will handle conditional locking, and so will our Frames.

The selected signal matter may be able to be handled, provided that the layout is simple (sounds unlikely in your case). If you are able to define a single signal to cover both routes required, while still maintaining safe interlocking, then you could use one of our Slot-wit gates to select the signal to be cleared based on the state of the points in question.
_________________
All the best
Harold
MODRATEC Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
ChrisF



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Harold"]Hello ChrisF. Welcome aboard.

You are correct in what you say. At this stage, neither our Frames nor our software can offer conditional locking. However, the next generation of SigScribe4 (probably SigScribe5) is under development and expected to be released around the middle of 2007. It will handle conditional locking, and so will our Frames.

The selected signal matter may be able to be handled, provided that the layout is simple (sounds unlikely in your case). If you are able to define a single signal to cover both routes required, while still maintaining safe interlocking, then you could use one of our Slot-wit gates to select the signal to be cleared based on the state of the points in question.[/quote]

G'day Harold,

Thanks for the reply. I thought that was the case, so I'll wait for the new version later in the year.

As a matter of interest, our WAGR practice was to have mechanical signal selectors, attached to the points by point rodding. This moves the position of a slide within the selector box. There are three wires connected to this selector box, one from the (single) signal lever, and two signal wires - one to each of the two signals in whatever part of the yard they were located.

I realise that this indicates that this is not a 'leverframe' interlocking problem, but the provision of the concept would be good to have in SigScribe4.

On another note, I completed a layout in SigScribe4 last night of the WAGR's East Fremantle Station as it was in 1903. This station has not existed since 1905, so it was interesting to 'work' the interlocked box once more. Smile

Cheers and "Line Clear",
ChrisF.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
modadmin
Site Admin


Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 284
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisF,

Perhaps you would like to submit your East Fremantle design to be added to our examples list http://MODRATEC.com/ss4examples.php . Just attach it to an email together with a brief description of the layout.
_________________
All the best from "modadmin"
Forum Administration
MODRATEC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
modadmin
Site Admin


Joined: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 284
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrisF's SigScribe4 file for East Fremantle is now available on the examples web page

http://MODRATEC.com/ss4examples.php

Thanks ChrisF
_________________
All the best from "modadmin"
Forum Administration
MODRATEC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
caedave



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
Location: West Midlands, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 1:53 am    Post subject: Selected Signals. Reply with quote

I too have a need for this option but in addition on the diagram (Old Hill Jcn)
I am working on there is also a FOULING RAIL which is operated in conjunction with a Starter Signal.

It's purpose is to prevent the signal being cleared if any wheel is in the flangway close to and thereby obstructing the crossing move that this signal would allow, rather like a mechanical track curcuit.

Dave M.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harold
Top Link
Top Link


Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 16
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caedave,

A fouling bar can easily be accommodated using SigScribe4. You simply provide a blue lever in the frame - it doesn't need to be connected to anything - then, when defining the route for the affected signal, reverse the blue lever so that it is included in the definition.
_________________
All the best
Harold
MODRATEC Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
caedave



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
Location: West Midlands, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but that would invalidate the lever layout as the fouling bar was operated directly by the associated signal lever, and was not therefore within the box interlocking, but locked the signal lever by external mechanical means, in this case the weight of a wheel preventing the bar from raising.

So therefore, what I am looking for is a symbol (like the Det placer) that can be placed within the diagram, but, remote from the associated Signal/Point and then Connected to the Signal/Point lever as required. It would then be operate in the same way as a combined FPL/Point lever.

Dave M
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Harold
Top Link
Top Link


Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 16
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

caedave,

Understood. We'll certainly look at adding that feature.
_________________
All the best
Harold
MODRATEC Help
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
caedave



Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
Location: West Midlands, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Harold,

Just an NB. Must be able to connect to a Point or Signal lever.

Will now go and ask about the actual frame.

Dave M.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    MODRATEC Guest Lounge Forum Index -> SigScribe4 version 2 wish list All times are GMT + 10 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group